Dive into the transformative world of networking with the ‘Guy Who Knows a Guy’ podcast! Join host Michael Whitehouse and industry expert Sean Malone as they explore the art of authentic connections, sharing insights on effective networking strategies and the innovative role of technology in platforms like Flow Chat. Elevate your networking game and get ready for the groundbreaking JV Connect event on December 12th to 14th, 2023 – an unmissable experience for business growth and success!
Transcript
Welcome back to the guy who knows a guy podcast. We're so excited to be back with you. And this season we are counting down to J V connect the first of its kind, December 12th to 14th, 2023. This is going to be an incredible dedicated networking event, and you are going to want to be part of it. And this podcast here to help prepare you to get the most out of this incredible event. I'm Michael Whitehouse, the guy who knows a guy. And over the next few weeks, you're going to get to hear from some of the best people in the industry about networking. As well as some solo training from me. So be sure to join us on December 12th to 14th for JB Connect. And now, let's get to the interview. Welcome back to the guy who knows a guy podcast. The guy we are meeting today is Sean Malone of flow chat. Sean is the CMO co founder of flow chat and comes with over two decades of studying communication, specifically sales and the lost art of. prospecting. He and his teams have successfully grown more than a, more than a handful of seven figure businesses and sold a few and have guided four organizations into the eight figures. He has personally closed over 130 million in his career. He stays relentlessly focused on solving the revenue problem for business owners so they can experience the growth and success they deserve. And he is a loving hubby, cat dad, disc golfer, and sell by chat expert. So welcome to the show, Sean.
Sean Malone:Hey, Michael. I just want to say, man, what you do, what you stand for is true to my heart. And I think we hold some of the same values very dearly. So I just appreciate what you do. And I'm really grateful and honored to be here on your show.
Michael Whitehouse:Great. Yes. So I'm excited to have you on here. As we were talking before we started about flow chat, you know, as I've talked about in my, my blog and emails and whatnot, I talked about the five corruptors of networking. And one of them is the automator and the automator is wants to make things faster, more efficient and. If it makes things less human, you know, oops, whatever. What do we need humans for anyway? And, you know, like, like the, the program I encountered that scrapes the data out of a networking event and then encourages you to basically pitch everyone who was there, which is the wrong way to do it. So I'd love to kick that off to tell us why you're not one of the corruptors.
Sean Malone:Well first and foremost it comes down to values, you know, like, and, and I think what automation, what AI, like, Regardless of all this like AI automation, very powerful tools when used for good, never for evil. I'm a guy that's always for good, never for evil. And so automation is the thing that everybody's craving. Hey, I just want to press a button, let it set up and run. And my business magically grows. Unfortunately, that's a myth and a pipe dream that doesn't usually ever happen, right? Cause there's always additional work that needs to go into that, whether it be optimized or anything else, whatever. So the idea of. Communication and the idea of connection, connection. There's a study I just watched diary of CEO, wonderful podcast, a video cast they have. There's a gentleman talking about like human connection is the thing that's being lost. Human connection, real human, authentic, genuine connection is the thing that's going to keep us human and drive everything forward. And so when we take that out of any marketing or selling process, and we just automate the whole thing, it becomes mindless, robotic. unfriendly, doesn't feel good, ugly, icky, all the words that you can think of that like kind of gets you into that boat. So when we created a the tool that we created, it was designed from a sales brain mentality versus a marketing brain mentality. Quick definitions there. So everyone's very familiar and I love both. Okay. So, but marketing brain is the guy that says, Hey, look at me. I'm doing this cool thing. Come this way. And they get somebody to open up their eyes, the attention side and a little bit of exposure. And then once you go down the pathway, if it turns into automation right after that, it feels terrible as a prospect of somebody who's buying or investing into the thing. And so, so marketers are great at getting attention. But in my opinion, they kind of lack the follow through. And then the sales brain guy where, where we came from, I've been in sales for 25 years. It's all I've ever done and known is this idea of like, what does it take to close a deal? And let's start there and then reverse engineer the whole conversation, make sure as authentic as possible and try to template it, but we know it's going to be a little bit off script. It's not going to be exact, right? So if we knew that, and then we just have in front, like the little marketing piece, now we have a complete system, right? And it's not automated because the way that we configured the system that we built. Is within compliance of the 11 socials that we play on, and it is a human to human system executed by clicking a button actually sending a message instead of just hitting an automation button and firing a bunch of messages of people. Yep.
Michael Whitehouse:Yeah, and that's a huge, huge difference. I think the one key difference too, that I see is the way you talk about it. So that, that's what bothered me with the, the, the one that inspired the automator as the corruptor is the way they talked about it was, he said that this person found 400 prospects in in these networking chat logs. I'm like, they're not prospects. It's a networking event. No one's a prospect, a networking event. That's not why they're there. No one goes networking out to buy versus that you're, you're starting by saying, you know, this is about connections, about facilitating communication, facilitating conversation. And the user. Is going to hear your use case and then say, I want to do your use case. So if you're saying the use case is 400 prospects, I would say, ah, prospects slam into the CRM, send out some sales letters and. Bam. And even if that's not what it's meant for, the marketing is telling them to do that. Whereas you're saying, create conversations, create connections and, and, Well,
Sean Malone:and I agree. I like, I'll just add to that. It's like people buy from people, right? Unless, and I guess it kind of really depends on price point too. So depending on what you're offering, lower ticket. Can usually have a little bit or more automation and less personal touch. When you get to kind of like the higher ticket stuff, people are buying for people. They don't buy from a paid ad. They don't buy from a website. They got to go talk to somebody at some point. Right. And so here's where the disconnect happens. If you set up all that automation and it goes boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, calls got booked. And then you jump on the call and you have no idea about this prospect. You don't understand what they're going through. You haven't walked in their moccasins. You haven't understood their story. And they think they were talking to you. Right. That sales process from that initial call to when the deal actually gets closed is going to be extended. And so by having a human to human connection and really actually building know, like, and trust, nurture, rapport, all the things that need to be in a selling process, right? This gives you that, that, that the cohesive ability to just get on the phone and really truly have like a level of rapport where you can ask deeper questions and you can get to the. Closed deal faster, right? Because everything in this world, if you're trying to build a business is about sales velocity, you have to have sales velocity, which is turnover and new sales coming into a business. But that sales process flow experience that both parties go through you as the provider, them as the prospect or client, or even a person you're just networking. To get, to figure out a need, if there even is one, right? I love networking because it's a very casual conversation. It doesn't have to be pushy. It shouldn't feel like you're pressured or, Oh my gosh, Sean, what do I say? What, how do I start a network? Oh my gosh, I need to come over to you, Michael, like teach me how to network. It's like, no, no, no, no, just go. What would you say to your buddy playing around a disc golf? What would you say over like, just connect? Like that, that piece. Is what I think is getting lost in translation with all the rapid development and tech and AI and all this other stuff, but there are some people that are kind of like the rock in the river that are saying, no, no, no, this still needs to be part of the whole process. Yeah. So, yeah,
Michael Whitehouse:I, I found this is the more we talked about about flow chat. Yeah. Think about the way I use email. So, you know, when I started using emails, I was networking with 20 people a week. So I was adding 80 people a week to a month of my network. I couldn't follow up with 80 people. I can remember 80 people. But what I could do is create some good, authentic, personal content. You know, not pitchy stuff, but sharing my stories and lessons and stuff that I want to share with everyone I networked with. And then I just invited everyone into my email community. They got that content. If something resonated with them, they'd self identify and be like, Hey, Michael, let's talk again. And maybe I remember them in detail. Maybe I don't, but it's authentic because they know it's an email list. So they, they don't expect me to know them. They know this is a one way communication, but it still kept us in touch and connected. And so, so Joe, I'm always looking for ways to network personally, but then make up for the fact that my mind is a steel sieve and everything falls out of it. And, and, you know, I, I'm not the guy who's going to send thank you cards to everyone. I can't keep track of all that stuff, but I really do want to provide value to people. I want to stay connected with them. So when I've got. 3200 Facebook friends or whatever it is you know, we were talking about this before that I'm running JV connect coming up. It's a very affordable event and no brainer event to buy a ticket. But if you don't know about it, you're not going to buy a ticket. You're going to miss out. I can post on Facebook all day long. If the algorithm says you don't see my posts, you don't see my posts. So how do I make sure people don't miss out? And, and that's something and actually that way we can talk a little bit about that use case of, you know, as I was asking you, if. If I, you know, can I just use this to keep track of who I messaged? You know, I, if I'm messaging a thousand people, because I honestly think they're gonna benefit from this, I can't remember who I messaged and I'm going back through and I click on it. Now I got a message there. I click on this. Now I've already gotta message it, and so I'm missing everyone. And so that was kinda the first use case I saw is this system can keep track of this person got a message, this person didn't get a message, this person replied and make it a, you know, a useful platform instead of just a darts at the wall. hoping some hit the board and, you know, and not missing the people I need to miss or need to need to reach. So yeah, talk a little bit about how it.
Sean Malone:I think I love that. And thank you for picking up on that. Cause that's, that's exactly what it's for, right? Like, so, so, so the software is called flow chat. You can go to flow chat. com, check it out. Right. So that's cool. But I didn't think that's where this, we're going to talk about networking, this great flow chat does four things really, really well. Number one, it allows you to find those hyper targeted. Opportunities to connect with people, right? Not just prospects, some people call them prospects. Some people call them leads, right? I'll, I'll, I'll use the term like Alex Ramos. He just put it in his new book, a hundred million dollar leads. He says the difference between a lead and an engaged lead is the engaged lead is the person kind of raising their hand and swimming in your direction. Right? So typically people say, I hate outbound, Sean. I just want to do inbound. Okay. Well, let's talk about the definition of inbound outbound. And I'll get back to the flow chat in the four things they do well. So, so, so inbound is created after the creator does some piece of outbound something in your case, Michael, you're putting a piece of content out on social. Somebody sees that and then they come in your direction. How did that start? You put the piece of content outbound first. So everything we're doing is actually outbound. There's inbound is only creator generated by an outbound action. And so that's, that's where content now, most people are like, Oh, when they hear that definition, like, okay, that makes sense. Well, how do I start a DM conversation? Is the next big thing? Like they get, Oh, like, what do I say? And that is the piece where most people kind of get stuck because a lot of people have been teaching copywriting. Here's website copywriting. Here's email copywriting. Here's all this type of copyright. DM message. Copywriting is significantly different than almost all types of copywriting that is out there. So you need a little bit of knowledge in order to win. So here's a pro tip for anybody that does not sound like that guy. That's exactly right. Yeah. So pro tip, if you are wanting to use DMS for your business, to grow your business, to test ideas, to grow JV partnerships, to get downloads on a podcast, YouTube, whatever, start with a compliment. Right. I've studied this in almost 400, 000 VM conversations. The one that gets the most engagement is a compliment. So just give somebody a genuine compliment on what they're trying to do or what they're doing from the, based on their profile. Very, very easy way to do it. It's a very non nonchalant, just casual way to get in conversation. Okay. Backing up to what is supposed to be
Michael Whitehouse:a genuine compliment because we all get the, I love what you're doing with your business and you can tell that's cut and paste, it needs to be. You know, I love what you're doing with your business. Your, your work with DMS is a fascinating take on it. So that you actually think that,
Sean Malone:or it's like, or I'd come to your profile and it'd be like the spin that you're putting on networking is truly inspirational. Michael, thank you for being out in the world and doing that. You're going to be like, well, that's a different type of compliment is right down your niche, right down your alley. And so it takes four seconds to figure that out for somebody, right? Yep. And if you get hyper notched in your business, and most people are in that bucket, like you can use a template and just tweak it from a couple of words here and there to make it that way. Right. So it can be authentic and you can run it at scale. So I'm sharing, I'm just shouting from the mountaintops, like you can do it at scale. So cause that's what everybody wants. Right. So, okay. So Floatzad does four things really well. Number one, helps you to find those hyper targeted leads. As an example, you could go to any post you've made going outbound, and in one click, collect all the likes, collect all the commenters from that post you've made, put them into this Kanban pipeline type system that manages them along each stage of that conversation. Like, hey, did I send him a first message? Hey, did I ask him this question? Did I invite them to my call? Whatever the stages are that you want. So that's the first thing it does. It allows you to hyper target leads. Secondly it facilitates sending messages. So we don't have any automation in the system. We do manually just set up a templated conversation one sided, but then it's just a simple click a button. And it copies your clipboard, and then you paste a message, and then you move the card along in the process of DMing of where you want them to be. Okay, so it tracks everything. That's the thing. It also helps you to qualify. So, finds the leads, facilitates the message, Qualitate, I guess qualifying should come before facilitating messages in, in theory. But we have a step by step process that you can follow to take it from like suspect to qualified opportunity. And then we'll facilitate message sending. And then the last thing it does really well is reporting on metrics. Those are the four things that, that our software does well. Yep.
Michael Whitehouse:Yeah, so, so I like that it's, it's so, so human. And it's not just automating, blasting stuff out. Now, obviously you, you could use it with an assistant. You could use it with a team and whatnot, but it can also facilitate using it for yourself to just make sure you're reaching the right people. And you don't miss their, their message back and, and all that kind of stuff. No, could this be used if someone now, obviously if somebody says, how should I network? I would say, well, I recommend coming to JV connect. You'll meet a bunch of people, but if somebody wanted network by say, going on LinkedIn or they're not working for a job, let's say Which they probably didn't slow chat for that, but let's say they were or they're they're trying to to break into an industry. Could this be used instead of for a sales process for a networking network building
Sean Malone:process? Yeah, absolutely. I think a couple of great examples are recruiting, right? So like if you're a recruiter, that's another really great use cases. Let's say you're a recruiter for a fast food restaurant. I just did a presentation to 7, 000 restaurants about this topic. And it's, it's how do you use tech to actually recruit in a way that's systematic and automatic and not have to pay like one of those recruiting agencies, millions of dollars when you get some high ticket person that you hire. So same thing, right? So you just set up the messaging outbound on, and it's a different experience. If you're recruiting, how do you usually get recruited? You go to zip recruiter, you go to ladders. com or whatever, and you look, and then you, you apply because you want the job. And then it's like that stuffy bad process. But what if. On the flip side, that same experience could be Michael, man, you're a, you're a networking pro. Our business right now is struggling in the HR world and we need somebody to come and help with networking. Would you be up for a quick 15 minute call just to see if your skillset fits what we're looking for? And all of a sudden now Michael's like, Whoa, that's right up my alley. You know, like, and of course you're going to jump on that call. So you're going to get a higher probability of calls booked or applications filled out. You need to jump on the call 15 minutes. We do have a, you know, like a. We make sure that our values are aligned and then, okay, great. Hey, next step is to fill out this application. Could you do that? Here's the link. And I do it on a zoom call. Now it's a personal conversation for me to recruit Michael into my company as a recruiter, right? So that's, that's just a kind of like a use case that it could be used for. If you're looking for jobs, same thing. You can go to LinkedIn. Again, our platform works on 13 pro platforms. Doesn't matter where you're at. LinkedIn say you have sales navigator. You could pop open your navigator and run a filter to say, I want all hiring managers at this type of niche. It'll pull you a list. You can click one thing, put that whole list right into a pipeline and be like, I'm interested in your be interested. Obviously I'm interested in learning more about your company. I'm thinking about applying at a job there. Can you talk to me? And you're reaching out now to that person that those are the, that's who hires you, right? Employers are always looking for those people that are like. Putting activity in and showing the energy. It's like, show me, don't tell me kind of a thing. That's where I feel like Flowchat could just be superior.
Michael Whitehouse:I think what's so powerful about that, too, is that you can be more personal because the technology gets out of the way or get the work out of the way. So a lot of recruiters there. Yeah, it's
Sean Malone:like putting the power of less clicks at your fingertips, putting the power of AI assistance generated assistance with messaging at your fingertips. But don't do it for you, right? Like that's the idea. Well, you
Michael Whitehouse:know, I get those messages sometimes. I got a message on LinkedIn the other day and it said you know, I love your profile. And are you open to a, to a new opportunity? And basically you want a job. And, and my reply was, you obviously did not look at my profile because nothing about my profile lines with what you just said. But if you don't have proper automation, then you use blunt automation and you hire a VA in the Philippines to just. You know, here's the specs, blast them all with this message and it's, it's brute force. It's, you know, send out 10, 000 and hope 10 reply and, and that's how it works. Versus if you have the right technology, you don't need to hire the VA in the Philippines. You can do it yourself because it's just click. I'm looking at the next person. Yeah. All right. Is this the right person? Yes, they are. Let me tweak this message. So it's personal. Them send click and look at the next person. So you, the computer becomes your assistant and it's actually. You could that's the other thing I've found is there's nothing more awkward than messaging someone and getting and reaching their VA on LinkedIn, but their VA doesn't know you're a friend of theirs. So they talk to you like the recruiter and you know, and I've, I've had like, could I speak to the real Lois, please? It's, it's like, you know, you know, talking to Sybil that, you know, the multiple personality or like, okay, which Sybil am I talking to now? Yeah. Yeah. Is this, is this the real Sybil? Or is this Juan? So, so like, so it's interesting because the technology allows you to be used correctly. I mean, obviously you could use this wrong and, and hire a bunch of people in the Philippines and blast out a bunch of spam. But used correctly, it allows you to be more personally engaged because you don't need to be spending all the time searching through lists and prospecting and And, and digging so you can spend more time sending messages and replying to messages and having conversations and engaging, which seems
Sean Malone:huge. Yeah, I 100 percent agree. You're absolutely right. And even just to add to that, if you guys know who David Ogilvie is, he's one of the greatest. He's like one of the founding forefathers of copywriting, right? And what he says is 80 percent of your first dollar spent in marketing is blown on your headline. So if we translate, like translate that into like the DM environment and messaging somebody outbound for the first message, we got to spend 80 percent of our time making sure that first message hits, we got to spend. And 80 percent of our time staying focused on making sure the first message is a genuine, authentic, and real, and in the right lane, hitting the niche, saying the right thing. Because when you do that correctly, right people, right message, big results. That's it. There's no other formula.
Michael Whitehouse:Well, and this also, you know, one of the things I talk about is, is this ninja networking rubric. And there's five levels networking. The first level is network prospecting, which is what you're talking about. It's that authentic conversation. Looking for a problem someone has and if it's solved by your service, gently asking for permission to discuss your, your offer. And because, you know, who's not going to respond well to the, to the question, would you like help with that? And, and, and this, this does sort of that, that same thing that it's about. I actually, it's interesting because, you know, we're, we're a Washington spam and all your email spam and DM spam and, and just meaningless messages that don't apply to us at all. We get them like, why am I even getting this? You know, I got a message being like, I, you know, I, I help women in their fifties to find more film into work. And I'm like, good for you. I haven't got anything that misaligned, but almost so, but if people had the right tools, they could, and of course they, they do that because they don't know any better way. So they send out, they shotgun it, but with tools like yours, it lets them be more authentic and lets them be, and actually reminded. But when I first got into coaching in 2020, the first thing I did was a sell by chat strategy. Yep. But without any tools, it was I'd make posts. I'd respond to the comments. And, and I, I learned one of talking more strategies. I
Sean Malone:love talking. Yeah. Dear friend and his wife, Kiri Marie. I've been on there. I was on their leadership council for a while. Yeah.
Michael Whitehouse:And so that's actually what, what gave me enough confidence to say, I think I should go into the coaching industry. I did not actually have the chops to deliver the coaching I was selling with this very powerful tool. And so I ended up stopping, stopping using it, but yeah, I made 10.
Sean Malone:What year was that when you were doing that? 2020. 120. Okay. Three years ago. Yeah. Right at the
Michael Whitehouse:start of the pandemic. And, and since then I have, you know, become certified and interviewed 200 people and learned a few things a few things over that time. But, but yeah, I think about the strategy was so powerful because it was so authentic. It was basically asking people questions about what are you trying to do? Where are you now? Where are you stuck? Where do you want to be? Would you like help with that? And they were like, yeah, what's next? And they just walked down the path with me. And I'm thinking about what I was doing then, if that was augmented by a technology that would keep track of it, you know, I was using a spreadsheet and, and, you know, last date, and it wasn't, I was a small scale. I I'd get, you know, four comments when I made a post. So it wasn't massive, but if I, you know, technology support and I could see this being really game changing. There's so many people out there. They don't want to be cold DMing. They don't want to be pitching. They, they want to help. They have something that actually helps people, but they need a way to identify who has the need, who's going to raise their hand, and then how do I draw them in? And, and so many people, especially people in the helping people space, you know, the holistic space, the mindset space, the spiritual space, they don't want to, their sales strategy is one that grabs one by the head and, oh man, they want to. And it seems like this could, this could really help them to, to be more authentic
Sean Malone:like that. Yeah. So I, and I just, I always think through the lens of like DM copy, cause that's what I've been specializing in for a long time. And it's so you know, like a first message for somebody in that space. If you're listening right now, this might be a good one is like, Hey Michael, or I wouldn't even pro tip, never start your first DM with someone's Hey name. Because that's what everybody does. You always want to be different. So put that person's name at the end of the first sentence after a comma. That's the pro tip of the world, right? So, so I would come up to, you know, say, Michael, you're in the mindset space. One of the first messages I might send in that case is, Looks like our energy aligns, Michael. I'm curious how do you, how do you, what's your morning routine? Simple question, right? Compliment. Simple question. That's an easy way to get into a great conversation about some, Oh, why'd you choose that one? Who do you follow? Like what, all these things. And then we start transitioning. So like there's four hinge points in every DM conversation, and I don't care if it's for networking, if it's for sales, it's for whatever, right. And the four hinge points really start with the first thing is getting engagement. Right. Do not try to sell from your first message. Everybody tries to do that and they do it wrong. Those are the spammy, salesy, the ones that feel like shit that you don't want to get. The ones I get a million times a day. The ones you get a million times a day. You know, instantly like, nope, block that guy. Get him out of here. But right. So the first thing is we always say focus on is getting engagement. The second thing we need to do is have a series of one, two, maybe three questions that transitions them from that engagement. Into what I call opening the windows. So you can invite them permission based to the next step. So it goes and get engagement and it goes transition. So some of the questions we use in our world, a little bit different than probably what you're in, but it's like. What's the biggest marketing challenge you're working on conquering right now? Question one, they say this great. What have you tried to do to solve that second question? Third, what would it mean for you to solve this forever? How much does it cost you to not solve this problem? Those are great, easy questions that you can ask, because then that'll just completely wrench that conversation from. Initial message transition into, oh my gosh, you should, you should see our tech. Here's that window open invite. And my invite, is it cool if I send you a quick video or are you, is it, would it be better to just hop on a call? I mean, it's very casual, great way to go to a, sending a tenant to a website or getting call booked or. And then say yes. And then the next step would be like, you know, drop the link in the clear future. Like, Hey, watch this tomorrow. And we'll keep talking or whatever. So,
Michael Whitehouse:so I'm interested in your opinion is cause I'll, I'll sometimes get these and, and, you know, I can see sell by chat when I'm in it. And yeah, so someone will send me that kind of message. And so I'll point blank, ask them, what are you selling me? And often the reply I get is, Oh, I'm not selling you anything. I just want to get to know you. And to my mind, I'm highly suspect of this. Of course, if they then try to make any kind of offer, we're done because as soon as you lie to me, our conversations over and if you just box yourself in by saying, I'm not selling anything so,
Sean Malone:so that answer is, is not a pro answer. I mean, that's the big difference, right? And you can tell when there's someone that's done it for a while and there's someone that hasn't, right? And so that's, that's one of the reasons why we offer 16 live sessions per month. Every month for our users to show up and make sure they say things right. And so the idea is if, if someone says to me, well, are you trying to sell me something? I'd be like, I don't know. Cause I don't know if I can even tell you anything yet, because I don't know if you have the challenges or struggles that I solve, but I do want to learn more about you. Good answer. I like that. Very casual, very right to the point. Like, cause I don't know if you have the problem I solve and everybody needs to remember, not everybody has the problem you solve.
Michael Whitehouse:Yes. Yes. Oh. Yes, so much. Yes. Well, and what I like about that as a, as a networker is if somebody reaches out to me and, you know, cold approaches me and, and I say, you know, what are you selling? And you say something like that, then I'm like, that's someone I can network with because that's someone who I know is going to have respectful conversations. If I refer them to someone, it's someone who I, I'm curious to learn what you do, because you might know someone I might be able to get with. Refer, you know, affiliate commission, referring you to someone. I might be able to help someone out, referring you to someone. But also if you're, you know, if you don't just panic and say, Oh my God, I'm not selling anything. Then we can have an honest conversation. And, and, you know, sometimes I'll just let you roll. I'm like, okay, cool. Run your process. Let's see it. Yeah. Send your questions. Because again, you can see if you understand the process, you know, what's coming next. So,
Sean Malone:but also there is a point in that conversation where you shift from analytical to emotionally involved. That's the big difference. And I think that's where people really, they get it right when they do it, right. And it works a hundred out of a hundred times. It's so beautiful because you're, you're so smart, Michael, you know so much about marketing and you're so good at networking. Like, dude, I could shower you with accolades all day because it's real. Right. And if you haven't worked with Michael, go work with him right now, if you're listening to me, but, and saying all of this, You always start from that analytical place, right? You're the logical start of that conversation. You're like, Oh, I see right through this strategy. It's horseshit, or it's good, or whatever you're thinking as you're going through, sorry for cussing. I just get emotional. And, and,
Michael Whitehouse:and right now campus on CBS.
Sean Malone:Right. There you go. So then at some point you're like, okay, let it ride. Like they passed your logical test in your flow, right? In your journey. Cause every buyer, every prospect has a different journey, right? You got to remember that too. But once we pass that litmus test in your conversational flow, now they start asking you if they're asking you the right and good questions, you shift. from logical to emotional and you realize, Oh, I do have that problem, my business. And now you're, as soon as you realize that the conversational flow switches, because now you're really asking if they can help you solve the thing you're actually struggling with. That leads to a call in 90 percent of the time it leads to a sale.
Michael Whitehouse:Yeah. Yeah. And I definitely, I saw that in it, but yeah, I think that's the powerful thing. And you always want to pay attention. A lot of process will tell you how to sell them. They'll tell you what they want, how they want to be talked to and listen. So if somebody point blank, you know, when my high D comes out and I say, you know, are you trying to sell me or what are you trying to sell me? The, the answer should either be, well, what I have is this or something like you said, might maybe nothing. I don't even know right now because I don't know if you have the problem that we solve, but I'd like to explore that. Then yeah, then at that point, my response would be all right. Cool. You've been honest. I know the context of this conversation. Take it away. You're in charge. You know, Lead the parade. Let's see
Sean Malone:where we go. And I love that you bring up your, you know, Hydenus and the personality profile and stuff. Because I studied extended disc. I used to teach it, right? And so I still teach it. Is this idea of like, if I recognize, and that's the beauty of communication to DMs, is you can, in about two to four messages, back and forth with somebody, you can tell what the profile is if you kind of know. And if they're answering in short, one word, two word, or maybe one sentence long things, they're probably going to be on the D side. Yep. And so then all we need to do is talk about transformation and results in one line. And that's how you respond to you after I've learned that. So I'd be very direct to the point. I would talk about results specifically, and I would focus on the word what. So for anyone listening and want a little quick lesson in disc profiling. The D people, the high dominant CEO types, they care about what their favorite word is, what let's do it. Let's play a game before I go through this, Michael, there's four words I'm going to give you. You tell me which in order from first to last. Okay. What, why, who, and how, which was I like what's yeah. In order of most importance to you, what, why, who, or how. Probably who
Michael Whitehouse:would be the first most. Actually I'd say probably who, who, why, how,
Sean Malone:what, I think. Who, why, how, what means, okay, so, so what is usually a high D? Yeah. Who is usually a high I? You have a lot of I personality, influencer personality, because look at your shirt. I can tell that. Look at the colors behind you. I people love colors. Yep. I can see that, right? They use quotations. They make copy look like it's alive. A lot of things like so. So again, you've got a lot of high I and then
Michael Whitehouse:the other thing when my D comes out, not that I am high D, but I get high D when someone's
Sean Malone:of course, of course, of course, of course, but see the secret in DM messaging is trying to figure out what somebody's primal filter is. And then speaking through that filter, because then you drop all the barriers of resistance. Transcribed And you're actually able to report and connect. And that's what we talk about is like, get that connection. Cause when you get into rapport, it's easy to ask tougher questions.
Michael Whitehouse:Yeah, no, definitely. And this is some, some really powerful stuff. And so, you know, I, I, I like this. This concept and that's why I sell by chat appeal to me in the first place because it was, it was a more authentic way of connecting. I, I got a networking because I don't like cold calling. I networking was a better way of connecting people than picking up the phone and just calling them cold and, and it, it worked better and they were happier and everything was wonderful. So, You know, so I, I like this, this concept and also it's about if you have something that you know is valuable and then that's where a lot of entrepreneurs also get in trouble. Like, I don't know if it's valuable because I haven't proven it yet. Cause a lot of people are going into entrepreneurship, which is a whole different conversation that's beyond the scope of this podcast. But yeah, I'd love to talk a little bit more about, you know, onto the networking side. You talked a lot about like directly selling to people, but you talk a little more about networking, how you can use that to both find. People to engage with and then also how you can find partners who can connect with audiences to engage
Sean Malone:with. Yeah, love that. Okay, so a couple of use cases. The first one I'll talk about is if you are trying to just find people that you want to network with, right? So one of the things that I would encourage is if you have a community or a tribe that you're trying to build, example, Facebook group, or if you're on school, you can build a community over there, or, you know, there's a million of them, right? So wherever you house your kind of community. One of the easy icebreaker moves that you can start with. And it's what we did for years. Was say, Hey, I just built this networking group. It's really bad ass. It's got these types of people in here. I think you might be a fit. Are you interested in joining? Right. And it's a very quick one to only pick out those people that are true networker folk, because most people that are like, Oh, well, you know, they're either going to come at it. Well, I can, I sell to them or I can add value to the group is usually like the either or kind of like, so you're looking for the kind of people that are saying I could add value to that group. Yeah, I'll jump in. Okay, great. Here's my link. Let me know when you join. I'll have my team give you a warm welcome. Then that happens, right? You let them in the group, your team gives them a warm welcome. And then you can come back now. And you can say, Hey, I make it a point to speak with every member in my networking group. To network, here's what's covered on the call item one, two, and three. In our case, it's number one. I want to share what our group's all about and what content's allowed to be posted. Number two, we have this kick ass free referral system that I'll show you exactly how it executes. And number three, I got to make sure that you have a system that's robust, that can consistently and predictably grow your business. That's usually what my networking calls are, you know, are around. If there's anything else you want to add to the agenda, that's great. Let me know. And so I've been very crystal clear in my intent and my purpose through the messages. Very authentic, very real, but very scalable. Hmm.
Michael Whitehouse:I like that. And, and so, and, and one thing I hear through that is, That you open the door. I assume that you'd have some sort of offer available. So you open the door for
Sean Malone:them to say, yeah, if you get that far and typically in the calls, I'll start that way. I'll be like, look, here's our group. Like, what are the things that you were most interested in? And I started asking you really good questions in my calls. Why did you want to be in this networking group? What are you hoping to accomplish? Do you like to go to events? Do you like to do this? Oh, you need to go.
Michael Whitehouse:Unless they self identify a need. You'd never even make an offer. Correct. So, so they don't feel like they're being pitched to and. If an offer is made, then it would be because they identify, you know, yeah, I don't really have that process in place and I wish someone could help me with it. Yeah.
Sean Malone:Do you want to talk about it? Always permission, always permission, permission, permission. That's how conversations should always be driven, right? I usually start, I start that part of the call. So I always start with networking, learn all about them and everything else. And then I'll show them a group, which is really easy and powerful. If you have a group, this is how ours works just so you know, I like to give the kind of behind the curtain. So it's, it's one of those things where it's like, look. Michael, I know there's people in here that can use your services. Do me a favor. Here's how our networking system works. Go through my list of members and tell me the top five or maybe top 10 people you want to meet. Send me the list. I'll personally introduce them in a three way message to you and you can start a conversation with them from there. That's it. Free. No, no, no. Ask no anything beyond that. That's what it is. And then we'll transition to the last part of that conversation. And I'll say something like, well, do you have a systematic way of consistently growing your business? What is it? Tell me about it. How do you grow your company? And then you start telling me and then I'll just start asking question after question and if we can find a gap, I'll be like, I'm pretty good at solving that. Do you want to go down that path? I like that.
Michael Whitehouse:I think I may be pulling the transcript from this episode and going back over this part because yeah, I have a Facebook group, but I don't do much with it. It's kind of like there because it hasn't been a major focus. And part of that is just not having a strategy for it. And you know, there's. I've, I have learned that less is more in my business, so I've really zeroed into, you know, the more things I get rid of, the better I do. It's amazing how that works. It's crazy. But yeah, as you're talking about it, it's interesting thinking like, oh yeah, this could really be effective for You know, for using that and, and, and, you know, I love that concept, that just small amount of outreach to people in the group, getting them on a call and,
Sean Malone:and they've already had a couple of messages to like, so the ice breaker for you is, do they want to jump in your group or not? And they're already, when they raise their hand and they say, yeah, sure. I'll jump in your group. Guess what? They went from lead to engage lead. They crossed the threshold. So now you're like, oh, he's engaged. Like now this could be an easy conversation because when they get in your group. You already have rapport and nurture with them. So now you can just start punching really sharp, a little harder questions if you wanted to. But again, I always, if it's networking. Be true to the ethos of what you're doing for good. Never for evil. Don't manipulate. Don't make the switch. Don't do all those things. Right? Like that's, that's
Michael Whitehouse:the idea. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the key thing is, you know, doing it, doing it the right way. Yeah. And so, so you mentioned in the notes that the networking has done quite a bit for you personally. So tell us about, you know, what networking has done for,
Sean Malone:for you. Oh, oh, my gosh. Yeah. So so actually going back to the second example as well, and I'll just kind of incorporate the whole thing together is like networking has really truly changed the The direction of every business that we've ever gone into. So the first big networking group, I got introduced to click funnels in 2016. And if you know, Russell Brunson, he runs, he built a hundred million dollars software company in five years. I happened to invest into every product and service. I've actually spent over a quarter million dollars with the guy to learn from him. And, and I got into a networking group that costs 25, 000. So one of the things I love about what you're doing, Michael. Is low barrier to entry guys. If you haven't gotten a ticket to this next event, go get it. It's super, super inexpensive. It's like the right thing to do right now because they're going to go up as he gets going. So right. But the idea was, is, is I invested, you know, my wife and I invested, you know, a whole bunch of money to be in this room. And that was my first example of like true networking at a very high level. And I, and I went into that room thinking, Oh man, am I going to get pitched or am I going to pitch everybody? You're like, what's going to happen here. And, and, and that cataclysmic shift for me where people are just getting on stage saying, Here's the one thing that works really good for me. Here's the thing that sucks for me. What's your advice? And how do I fix this thing over here? And I was like, that's awesome. Like so valuable to listen to that conversation. It wasn't salesy at all. And what came after was. I did the same thing and people are like, Oh my God, your thing that you do really good. Like, I need that. Can you help me? And that generated business and change. And on the other side, the people that came that were smarter, intelligent, and already solved this thing for themselves, they came to me and they said, Oh, you need to meet so and so and so and so and do this and this and this. So networking for me worked kind of in both ways to not only grow the business, but also to expand my network. Cause they say network is net worth. Network is net worth. So I know that I can reach out to Alex Ramosi on Voxer right now. I know I can reach out to Myron Golden on Voxer right now. Russell Brunson right now, Brendan Burchard right now, because I know them through my networking groups. And when you know the right people, like, you know, a guy who knows a guy, everything gets a lot better, faster, and easier. Because as our CEO, my business partner, Chris says, he's like, you can go if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together.
Michael Whitehouse:Absolutely. Yeah, that's that is a, a huge and powerful thing. And I'm glad I mentioned Chris, I was trying to remember how we connected and I'm pretty sure it was a cold DM from Chris. And I'm pretty sure, I remember asking in that DM, I was like, who am I talking to? Because I, I assumed I was talking to, you know, an assistant. And he's like, nope, you're talking to me, and I'm gonna connect you with Sean, and we're gonna get into conversation. So there's, there's that initial skepticism about like, who am I really talking to? But once I identified, once I engaged then, then he outflashed into something that became... became something very powerful. But yeah, so I, I like what you're saying about, you know, by someone once said Justin Breen said to me that his strategy is to pay, pay more and more money to get into better and better rooms.
Sean Malone:Yeah, yeah. I agree. But I also, I also feel like there's a, there's a space for what you're
Michael Whitehouse:doing. Yeah. Well, when I say the person who get before you can afford 25, 000, you've got to get in that first room where you meet those first people. And what I found is, you know, for obvious reasons, people want to make money. So a lot of the best people, they're like, if it's not a million dollars, it's not worth my attention. If it can't scale to a million, I'm not going to bother. And I'm in that space of, I don't need to scale to a million. That's, that's not what I'm called to do. If something leaves that opportunity, it will, but I want to be that first because currently for a lot of You know, that is not a good staircase. That is really hard to climb. So I just want to provide that first step where for a negligible amount of money, you can get into the space, rub shoulders, and you know, once you're in there, I'm, I'm optimizing the event to provide, to make it as easy as possible. You still got to do the work yourself. Cause for as little as we're charging, no one's holding your hand individually. We're putting you in the right room with the right people. Now you've got to actually talk to them and do something with it. But but yo, the first step is just to get in the right room. That that's what I discovered in 2020, when everything went online, I was able to get into rooms I could never afforded before, and that let me connect with people who I never would have been able to meet before and, and of course, the other thing is being open to it. You know, we're having this conversation because when I got a cold DM, I wasn't like, who the hell is this guy? I was like, huh, who the hell is this guy? And I was open to like, let's see this conversation. That's what frustrates me so much with most cold DMs. I'm like, I'm happy to talk to you. Let's network. How can we work together? And they're like, I am actually a VA and I cannot talk to you at all. I can only send you to the sales page. Like, I'm willing to work with you and I can't even talk
Sean Malone:to you. Yeah, for sure. For sure. For sure. Yeah, I, I agree. I think again, it's, it's, Leaving humanization in the process, I think is, is very, very important and something that we'll always hold as a dear, true value, like close to our hearts. Right. The other thing I just wanted to just double back again on that last other question you asked me is like, how could this work for networking? Right. Say, for example you have a proven product, proven path over here. Maybe you're selling some sort of like training for being an electrical contractor as an example. Okay. Yep. Let's say you want to grow your business. And you don't want to do the outreach or you don't want to do this, but you do want to do like joint ventures or partnerships with other people. Well, what you can do through a medium like email or DM or text or SMS, whatever is you can reach out to a plumber, right? And you can say, Hey, Mr. Plumber, we serve the same clients. I'm electrical, you're plumbing. Okay. And I want to email your list. Would you like to email my list for plumbing services? And all of a sudden that generates now this really awesome JV networking opportunity. And the thing that we talked about before this call is interesting. Let's say the electrical contractor has a bigger list than the plumber. Okay. Yep. So what is the electrician guide or the electric guy to come back? He says, look, I recognize they start talking and plumber says, well, my list is this big electrician says, my list is this big. He said, okay, cool. Well, look, my list is a lot bigger. Mine's a hundred thousand. Yours is only 10, 000, but here's what I'll do. I'm going to email a segment of my list and you email your full list. So it's even, and then we'll see the exchange. Does that sound like something you can do? And that becomes an easy way to use what we call, you've heard of OPM, other people's money. Have you heard of OPA, which is other people's audiences? This is one of the fastest trends of how to grow strategically your business very, very rapidly. So that process we've executed through DMS over and over and over and over again, works really well. We've done a lot. That's how I got in front of 7, 000 restaurant owners.
Michael Whitehouse:I love that you said that with, with cause you know, we think of that with coaches, we think about the course creators. I don't think most people think about that with. plumbers, electrical contractors, realtors, you know, those kinds of people. And realize like anyone with an email list can do this and everyone should have an email list because you should be capturing your audience so you can continue to serve them and engage with them. So
Sean Malone:I love that the real estate examples is tremendous, right? So if you're, if you're a realtor, guess what? All those homes need electrical, all those homes need plumbing, all those homes need pool maintenance, all those homes need contractors for their garden. What's to stop you as a realtor to go out to a contractor that has a bunch of clients where they do in your neighborhood of the houses you want to sell. They're doing all the landscaping. What if you went to that guy and you're like, look, let's cross promote. I want to sell houses in your neighborhood and you want to do more stuff over here. This is the other neighbor I had. Who's going to say no to that deal. That's awesome.
Michael Whitehouse:And it costs nothing and it serves because you know, why do you stay on your realtor's email list? Do you have to buy the house? Not 'cause they're giving you market updates. Yeah. I bought my house three years ago. I don't need market updates. I own the house, I'm done, I'm out of the market. But if they're gonna say, Hey, here's a great electrician that, that I trust, who's a good person? So if you need one, here he is. Or, you know, contractor of the week here, here's, here's John. He's a great electric contractor.
Sean Malone:That's a slam dunk to grow a business in a kind of, I guess, grassroots fashion.
Michael Whitehouse:Yep. Right. And it provides value. It's value all the way around, which is, which is huge.
Sean Malone:I'm the realtor in the area. I just found the best house cleaner of all times. Are you interested? Interesting. Right. So
Michael Whitehouse:yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a really, really great concept and taking it beyond the space we think or that I think of it in, into all these other spaces. So this is why I love podcasts. I get to meet, I get to learn so much from my guests. But all good things must end and there's no timer running. I think we're like three hours into this podcast. So
Sean Malone:I've enjoyed dude, you're, you're awesome. I enjoy that a lot of you, man. If
Michael Whitehouse:people want to connect with you how could they learn more about you and flow chat and all the
Sean Malone:rest? Yeah. So if you want to learn more about flow chat, just go to flow chat. com. F L O W C H a t. com. Flow chat. com. That's one way. Otherwise just hit me up in the DMs. I'll be there. That's where I live. Awesome.
Michael Whitehouse:I imagine. So very good. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been great talking to
Sean Malone:you. You too, Michael. Thanks so much. And again, I just, I want to say from bottom of my heart, dude, I'm really grateful that you're putting the vibes out that you put out in the world. And I think the service you're providing is serving a blue ocean. And I think you have the right purple offer from the red ocean to the blue ocean. And I think it's going to crush for you. And I'm excited to continue helping move the, move the train forward. So thanks for doing what you do. Thank you.
Michael Whitehouse:Thank you for joining us for the guy who knows the guy podcast. I'm Michael Whitehouse, the guy who knows the guy. And I hope you'll join us in December for the 12th and the 14th for JV connect. Go to guy who knows a guy. com for more details. Now, if it's after December, 2023, and you're listening to this, it's okay, because we're going to be doing this event every quarter to go to guy who knows a guy. com, see what's new, see what's happening. And of course, check the show notes, learn about our guests and how you just get in touch with them. Check out our next episode for more great training, information, and networking tips from Michael Whitehouse, the guy who knows a guy.